Jamies Story Page 90

Discussion (119) ¬

  1. Anna
    Anna

    Shit, they’re wearing the same outfits as on page 1 of Jamie’s story. It’s nearly over…

    (At first I thought today’s penultimate panel was the scene in page 1, but then I looked closer and saw that Jamie’s hoody in that panel doesn’t match his page 1 clothes. But when he takes the hoody off in today’s last panel… then it matches)

    • Bandit
      Bandit

      That was my exact thought. And now, I finally realise just how close Khaos is to ending. Now what will I do to get my fill of awesomeness?

  2. J
    J

    I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO CHARLIE’S HOUSE!!!!!!!!!

  3. Emma
    Emma

    That 5th panel is too familiar. I do believe it is the same as the first page of the chapter, and just.. Nooo…! I hope they end up together, but I have such a bad feeling about it D:

  4. Kyle
    Kyle

    Thanks for finally calling out that masculine/feminine shit. It’s like something people do the second they find out someone is trans. Everyone has those moments where they appear more masculine or feminine than usual. And then people wonder why trans people don’t disclose their trans status, I mean would you if you know people were going to scruntinize you like that?

    • nil
      nil

      I dunno, people do that sort of thing for any number of human features.
      I recently lost quite a bit of weight. A lot of people I barely know come and point out that I look so much better, am thinner and stuff. Even though it’s meant as a compliment, it can be a bit annoying because it makes me feel bad about how I used to look, sort of makes me feel that all these people think of me as “that fat girl”. I imagine that’s perhaps a minor version of the feelings a trans girl might get when getting comments about looking more feminine (That is, I imagine no one would tell a trans girl she looks more masculine today, which indeed would be kind of disturbing).
      In fact, a trans person probably does put quite an effort into looking like the appropriate gender, and I imagine a person commenting on that thinks they’re being extra nice and understanding – just like someone congratulates someone else on having lost weight or doing something with their hair.
      So yeah, I guess I understand why it might make you feel a bit uncomfortable, but it’s also unfair to keep judging the people around you because they think about everyone’s appearance. It’s a very inherent human thing. It’s no use always calling people’s shit about things and calling them intolerant just because of something that’s inherent to the way they think about things or the way they react to things.

      • Nico
        Nico

        Well, what you’re saying is true and understandable, everyone’s appearance can change and be noticeable, trans people (like myself) do have those days like anyone else where they look especially good or bad. But what I think is really annoying about the people commenting about it on here is that these are comic pictures. Artistic style, angles, and all sorts of things go into it and it can be more changeable than one person in a day. People saying “Charlie (or even Tom, I’ve seen that too) looks especially masculine/feminine in this page because…” is like saying “TAB IS DELIBERATELY TRYING TO MAKE HIS TRANS CHARACTERS APPEAR LESS/MORE LIKE A GENDER AND WE MUST FIND OUT!” When it isn’t that. So, it’s not even a real life thing, though it can be applied in real life, but an artistic difference between pages or even panels.

        • Gravatar
          Gravatar

          Tab has never indicated it’s deliberate. If it is then people are right to comment on it and Tab has no right to lambast people for mentioning it. If it isn’t deliberate, then it’s a sign of poor art and Tab needs to accept that inconsistencies are going to be looked at in such a way.

          • Bueller
            Bueller

            How about it’s a sign that Tab is a human being like the rest of us, and you need to accept that not everything people do is going to measure up to your exacting standards.

          • Rowan
            Rowan

            Also there’s this thing called confirmation bias where you’ll look for things that support what you already think. People think the characters look more masculine/feminine because they expect it given the situation, and so they see those traits more readily than the others.

          • Tab
            Tab

            It’s basically the confirmation bias thing. If people want to critique my art, that’s fine, but it’s a trend I only see happening with trans characters and it is not okay.

            I have very inconsistent character design which I try my best to correct but find very difficult even though I’ve been doing this for 6 years. My hand writing it the same, it would be far neater if I could just stick to one style, but no matter how hard I try it changes, even within a paragraph.

            I just wanted to make it clear that it is to do with just me drawing that way, not that I’m trying to send secret deep meaning through the comic at people.

          • Gravatar
            Gravatar

            Not to do with “exacting standards”, and instead the reasoning behind why people feel this way Rowan. Stop responding to what you think is being said, and answer what’s actually being posted.

          • SolitareLee
            SolitareLee

            Don’t get pissy because someone said something accurate and you don’t like it. There’s no fucking ‘stay on topic’ in the comments section of a /webcomic./ These things go all over the place, and you’re just being childish at this point. Confirmation bias is completely relevant as people are taking random variations in Tab’s art, which have /always/ happened, and applying them in a certain way, only to trans characters, because that’s what they expect to see. Relevant. Especially considering /no one ever comments on how the cis characters look more masculine or feminine in a given page, ever./ There’s a big difference between “accepting your art has flaws” and “giving that as an excuse for people to be dicks.”

    • Min Rei
      Min Rei

      I always notice how masculine or feminine Jamie is looking actually… Not any of the others.

      • Min Rei
        Min Rei

        I think it’s his long hair that draws that from me! That and he looks like his mom. :>

  5. Leo
    Leo

    Tired of people doing that, as soon as someone knows, they start treating you differently depending on who they are, but I’ve run into a lot of people who end up acting another way once they find out. I am not a disease I am a person.

  6. Frosty
    Frosty

    SHOOT!!! nooooo! this is shaping up to be *the* break-up scene!!
    and YAY for Jamie having already made plans!

  7. Hannah
    Hannah

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! DON’T DO IT JAMIE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU’RE STILL GOING TO BE IN THE AREA GIVE HER THE OPTION OF BEING WITH YOU UNTIL IF/WHEN IT’S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO END IT! YOU’RE MAKING ME CRY BBY AND NOTHING’S EVEN HAPPENED YET! ;_;

    Also kudos on calling out those obnoxious commentators Tab. I get the same shit in real life and it annoys me to no end out there, I don’t like or need to be seeing it here, so thanks. <3 Though to be fair, it would be ridiculous to say those things about any character, not just Charlie and Tom. I mean hello, what world are you living in where all men are completely huge and masculine, or all women are feminine and dainty? I know some CIS men who are more naturally feminine than I am even after a year on hormones, same goes for masculine women, and there's nothing wrong with it. Pet peeve… activate…

    • AllyCat
      AllyCat

      I get that ALL the time from my mother. “Oh, you are looking feminine today!” Geeze, mum, just cause I dress in boys clothes and don’t wear make up all the time doesn’t mean I want to be a boy. [face palm] She just hates the fact her only daughter is a tomboy.

  8. Wolfie
    Wolfie

    Good to know he’s so well prepared to flee from her bullshit! Stupid cow…
    I must admit, when I saw the bottom panel I thught Charlie’s chin made her look like a cute little elf XD Not sure where the whole “She looks masculine” thing comes from, maybe cause it’s a tad more pointy? Iunno, but elf Charlie would be adorable XD You should so dress her up as a cute elf for Christmas Tab :3

    …Please don’t tell me he’s breaking up with her :(

    • Anonymous
      Anonymous

      Can we not use such sexist insults as cow? Honestly…

      • Chaser
        Chaser

        Why can’t we have gender specific insults? What about bastard or dickhead? How is it sexist to insult someone you just plain don’t like because of how they act?

        Now if he used an insult that insinuated she was some how a lesser person for being a woman I’d understand. But I reserve the right to call someone who is a horrible person a bitch, just as anyone has the right to call me a gender specific insult such as douche-bag.

        I think it’s sexist that any gender specific insults that can only be attributed to one person at a time can be off limits while other insults are acceptable.

        • Shiloh
          Shiloh

          Right, because calling somebody a bitch or a cow (both words for animals, need I remind you) totally doesn’t insinuate that women are lesser…

          • dandelion
            dandelion

            You’re not really making sense Shiloh… by your definition, does ‘dickhead’ NOT, as a gender-specific insult for men, even a word for male genitals, “insinuate that men are lesser’??

            In fact just every gender specific insult, you could argue, does “insinuate that [insert gender] are lesser”. This is simply because as an insult it is, naturally, a derogative term. As a gender specific insult, then, it is a derogative term used for a person of a distinct gender.
            On top of that within the English language the majority of all insults and swearwords do have sexual content, which is just because that’s the way language has developed over the centuries for cultural reasons .

            Really, it would be very hard to find any insult or swearword where one could not find a reason to complain about it being “sexist”.
            And honestly, if you look at what direction this goes, this is plainly silly. Speaking of our ‘stupid cow’, men could start whining about the word ‘bullshit’…

            Oh, and did I mentions that many people from animal rights movement would cry out loud if they heard ‘stupid cow’, for this term implying that animals are lesser?
            Mh, we best stop speaking at all so nobody is in danger to feel offended… *rolleyes*

          • dandelion
            dandelion

            *mention

          • Kurai
            Kurai

            People here are just over sensitive and will find every single thing to get upset about. They think that by not using some words, they are being better or nicer or more politically correct, when they’re not. Insulting someone is the same as insulting someone. Calling someone “a fucking moron” isn’t better than calling them “a stupid bitch” just because there’s no gender insinuation there. My goodness, people here just infuriate me. It’s like they need to play the victim or the condescending do gooder all the time.

          • headbuttoflove
            headbuttoflove

            “Pig.” <– male, used exclusively for males, insinuates lesser than human*
            "Dog." <– male, used generally for females, ""

            *actually I don't think it does, but by your rationale it does

        • Clara
          Clara

          But douche-bag *is* gender specific. Douchebags were designed for women. They have been a tool to control women’s bodies since they were created. Calling someone a douchebag, depending on the context, is calling them a controller, or, mocking them for being something (less than) that is used by women/on women. These words, they have meaning

          • Clara
            Clara

            Besides, I am trying to think of other male-oriented derogatory words… dickhead (being careless, crass, not thinking)…… every other term I can think of is not gendered only to men. So, no, we aren’t really oversensitive just because women are being tired of being the butt of many so many jokes for so long.

          • headbuttoflove
            headbuttoflove

            Nobody uses douchebag to mean “controller.”

            It may be a feminine hygiene product, but as an insult it’s generally used for men.

            If anything, it means you are equal to an inanimate object used to clean non-public body parts, chosen over the similar “enema” because it sounds better.

            It’s no more a gender-based insult than “turd sandwich.”

      • annaheger

        Seconded

      • Elliott
        Elliott

        Thirded!!

      • SolitareLee
        SolitareLee

        Fourthed. I’m tired of people sobbing that “dick is a sexist term.” Call a man a dick, then call him a bitch, cunt, or cow. See which gets him angier. It’s more offensive to be called a woman than to be called a man, even in terms of insults. All insults are not created equal; that’s just absolutely ridiculous. Are you saying “poophead” is the same as “rancid cunt” now? Better call the playground and let the preschool teachers know they should be smacking the shit out of kids for saying poophead then, cause that’s what happens when they use a /real/ insult.

        People know the difference. To say they don’t is just being ignorant. And people need to always examine why they use specific insults. Why do people use “gay” for “stupid”? Why do people use terms to compare women to animals, but when talking to men, go with general bodyparts, like dick or asshole? Crying “free speech” doesn’t mean speech should never be analyzed, ever. e_e

        • Ioana
          Ioana

          “Why do people use terms to compare women to animals, but when talking to men, go with general bodyparts, like dick or asshole?”

          How about cunt which was initially targeted at women and ass (as in donkey) targeted at men?

          • Jimballisto
            Jimballisto

            I love how everyone is getting bent out of shape because the original commenter called a villain a “stupid cow”. Are we not allowed to insult the antagonists anymore? If so, I want no part of literature!

        • headbuttoflove
          headbuttoflove

          Depending on the audience and usage, both “bitch” and “cunt” can be used in a semi-friendly way.

          Nobody uses “dick” in that way.

          Just saying it varies.

        • headbuttoflove
          headbuttoflove

          Why did people use “gay” for homosexual?

  9. Cole
    Cole

    so.. sorry to sound like an idiot but when jamie says college does he mean the rest of sixth form or does he mean university?

    • Lea
      Lea

      Rest of Sixth Form College. :)

  10. Alis
    Alis

    I was wondering something… Tab, do you have any other webcomic project up in the sleave after KK ends?

  11. skunky
    skunky

    Charlie looks like a horse! :u

  12. Meow1
    Meow1

    Maaaybe when Jamie said ‘leave,’ he didn’t mean ‘break up with.’ Maybe he just meant, ‘going to go to Collin’s house for a few days and see the girl I love after that.’ It’s a long shot, I know, but we can hope. And there’s still an Alex scene. Maybe if Jamie does break up with Charlie, Alex convinces him to get back together with her? -sigh- I don’t know. I just need them to end up together. How messed up would it be if every couple except for them ended up together and happy? Come on Tab : /

    • rachaelwalter
      rachaelwalter

      I’m cautiously optimistic about this option, it’s along the same lines as what I was thinking as well. I just CAN’T see something happening in the next five-six pages that ends in him breaking up with her.

      I just don’t know. If Tab ends every story happily except this one, I think I’m going to die. O.O

      • Meow1
        Meow1

        Yeah, prolly not though with the whole, “But I had to do something first” on this page. Bleh.

    • Biev
      Biev

      We’ve already seen the Alex scene. It’s the one where they make up.

    • P.O.E.
      P.O.E.

      Yeah, well, breaking up with her at this point doesn’t really make sense in the context of the story. I would be shocked if he didn’t plan on seeing her again.

  13. ImaginaryPerson
    ImaginaryPerson

    D8 Won’t Charlie offer him her home? I somehow feel her mum would not object, especially if she knew what a terrible mother Jamie’s mum had been…. C’mon, we’ve had so many happy endings, can’t we have one more…?

    • Rendia
      Rendia

      That would be good. My boyfriend’s parents let me live with them, it does happen.

  14. Cat
    Cat

    Tab, this comic is so, so amazing. I feel like I’ve been following it forever. We’ll be sad to see it end but that just means we can read the whole thing through for a second time. :D

  15. zev
    zev

    oooooh shit.

  16. Vitriolo
    Vitriolo

    Though I agree with the tediousnes of the masc./fem. commentary, I do have to say that it could be a comment on a technical level. Khaos hasn’t always had the most consistent character features–not so much that it’s problematic or worse than other comics, but enough sometimes that this question could be brought up, and not have it be a reflection of trans-hate.

    And I really don’t say this to insult Tab. ): The art is, as a standard, well done, but growth happens, and as khoas is a long form comoc, inconsistencies can form.

    • Vitriolo
      Vitriolo

      …and I cannot type worth a shit on touch screens. I apologize.

      • Gravatar
        Gravatar

        This is pretty much what I was going to say. Intentional or not, Tab’s consistency is quite lacking and it’s no real surprise people comment on how it may be a deliberate thing with the trans characters – especially when this is the same comic that rapidly back pedaled after making one of its trans characters a rapist.

        • Lea
          Lea

          You’re seriously still geared upon that?
          You need to let that go, man; Tab apologized and revised the script because you guys showed him it was wrong. What is wrong with that if he admitted he was wrong?

          • The Keeper
            The Keeper

            I don’t think it was the prior commenter’s intention to give Tab a hard time about the change; but just to say that there is potential for Tab to have intentionally taken artistic license with his character’s features and then “ret-conned it” like the afore-mentioned page to avoid pissing people off.

            Drawing character’s features more harshly (i.e. “masculinely”) versus more softly (i.e. “femininely”) depending on the context is something I’ve seen in many comics, to make characters look either more determined, more vulnerable, or a host of other adjectives. It normally isn’t remarked upon in the same way with cis characters because it is seen as a subtlety hinting at their emotional state (if, indeed, it registers on a conscious level at all). It’s somewhat unfortunate, but the fact that the readers know the characters are trans makes us more sensitive to those kind of changes which we would normally take for granted, again, as hints to an emotional state and not a clear indication of male/femaleness.

          • Gravatar
            Gravatar

            It’s relevant. Tab complains people call him out on making changes depending on the context of his characters…yet he has a history of doing just that. Either it was deliberate and thus the criticism was warranted, or Tab just doesn’t handle art in a consistent way and so he’s attributing far more aggressive intent to the comments than anyone actually bothered with.

            I don’t give a toss he admitted he was wrong. The point is that making a retcon like that sets a precedent, especially in conjunction with his shifting character design; often from panel to panel.

          • Lena
            Lena

            @Gravatar; except as Tab said it mostly happens to the trans* characters; that makes it far more likely to be just old cissexism rather then any remarks on the technical level, since then they would be directed at ALL the characters.

          • ditto
            ditto

            I’m one of those people who used to comment on it, I thought since we were only seeing what one specific character remembered, that their perceptions would change based on weather they knew about the trans characters. I thought it was brilliant and the best part of Tab’s art. I’m really, really saddened to know that it was a mistake all along. All the characters change, but Charlie’s face varies the most and I thought that was brilliant, well-thought out, subtle storytelling. Now I have to tell the people I told “go read Khaos!” that it was never meant to be there in the first place. And apparently I’m a dick for having complimented you repeatedly in the past. So yeah. This is awesome.

  17. imageist
    imageist

    Hi Tab,

    I love your comic. I have a soft spot for tragedy (name me a tragedy that didn’t involve love), which is kind of ascetic, but whatever. I wouldn’t change anything. Keep being awesome and I’ll continue being a devout fan ;)

    xoxox Anna

  18. Konan
    Konan

    The only thing I really have to say is that charlie’s chin looks kinda witchy. As in, it’s pointed. And I haven’t really seen that in any other panels before now.

  19. tjnstlouismo
    tjnstlouismo

    I love this story and I love your work. What I see is your message about what is inside people, the hell with the outside. Love is genderless.

  20. Rei
    Rei

    The end is near. It seems so soon. I hope they end up together, though I know it will be somewhere along the lines of him telling Charlie that he has to work on his stuff before he can be with her fully.

  21. Mikkousha
    Mikkousha

    I’m actually kind of glad about the direction the story is going, not in that Jamie will probably break up with Charlie, but that he’s getting away from his mother and that unhealthy relationship. I have a somewhat unhealthy relationship with my family, as far as co-dependency is concerned, but its hard to break out and part of that is thinking what you’re going to do, if you’ll have a place to stay and all that. I feel like Jamie’s story is inspirational in that he’s able to finally say he’s had enough and leaving. I don’t know how he could be a really good bf for Charlie in the kind of relationship he has been in with his mom. It’s pretty difficult to have meaningful healthy relationships when you have a major dysfunctional and unhealthy one.

  22. atma
    atma

    Oh no! we don’t have much time left together” as in you’re not continuing? Yours is a rare webcomic and I hope and wish this is not the end!

  23. Ylva
    Ylva

    I’m actually a bit worried about how this will end, because every other couple story has had “one bad ending” and one “good ending”. Even when its arguable whether Charlie’s ending is good or not, it gave me the laughs, and I considered it to be a good ending.

    I just…. I really want that happy ending, and I really really want it to be possible. I just NEED to know that people can have happy endings after all that crap, even if it is just in a fictional webcomic, or I don’t think I’ll have much faith in my own life. Or humanity for that matter. In that way I’m just a kid.

    I just want to believe that there is nothing so bad in life that it could not be dealt with. I also have this fear that Jamie’s “I’m gonna leave her” will include a suicide attempt, which might be followed by the Alex scene, and maybe… gah. I’m stopping thinking here.

    • Dara
      Dara

      Well, Jamie’s narration says that Colin told him he could crash at his place, and that he’s had a plan for a while. He doesn’t confirm that staying with Colin actually IS his plan.

      That said, I don’t think Jamie will attempt suicide, not after his “I’ve got a lot riding on this whole repentance shit” line at the beginning of his story, which takes place after this scene. Between that, “maybe if I do this, I’ll figure out how not to be an asshole,” and the fact that he took the counseling pamphlet, I think it’s more likely that he wants them to take a break while he finally gets the help he needs. Or he’s planning on voluntarily committing himself for a while or going to a mental health facility further away. OR he’s going to confront/report his rapist and/or his father and plans to do counseling after. Plenty of possibilities.

  24. Month
    Month

    Next comic it will be him going somewhere to confront someone…

    Looking back to the other stories, we have seen Jamie evolve a lot more than any other character. More than Charlie and Tom, more than Steve and Mark, and certainly more than Nay and Alex (oh they all grow, but not that much, and certainly not that profoundly). Amber is the only other character that, at the time we meet her, is torn from inside, having a love that great that it hurts to even think about it. Charlie and Tom, no matter how hard their past is, they have decided what they are, and act accordingly.

    The only unreal element of this story, is how cool all these parents are. And if they are not, they are kind of… non-existant.

    • Lena
      Lena

      The only parents who don’t really play a big part are Alex and Nay’s though? I believe all the others make a decent story contribution.

      • Month
        Month

        Mark’s are non existent. They are shown to be typical parents, too busy for their own kids. Alex’s parents are really cool. You know they are there for their children from page one. Steve’s parents need no intro. Charlie’s mom is there whenever she is needed, as is Toms. The Bitch is the Bitch. Amber’s parents are like Mark’s. Nay’s parents are never shown.

        • drv
          drv

          nay’s parents show up with her sibs on page 2 of her story. she says (iirc) that her mom is where she gets her musical talent, too.

  25. Shaz
    Shaz

    This will be my first post here, ever, though I’ve been following it since it was just starting the current version of Khaos. Wow, it’s been years, and I’ve never said a word. I’ve wanted to, many times, but I’m often very shy by nature, and I didn’t know how to initiate the conversation, and so… I never said a word.

    I’ve never said how your characters and their stories touched my heart. I’m a 40-year-old ‘mostly heterosexual’ woman, and aside from coming to terms with (and accepting and then appreciating) the fact that I will be attracted to the occasional woman, all of my other life difficulties have not added up to anywhere NEAR the … trauma (?) and difficulty levels many of these characters have had. But getting to know these characters has made me a better person.

    I have always known there were people outside the rigid scale of male/female ‘normality’ (those quotes are a mark of dripping sarcasm, btw) that was pushed so hard upon me from outside sources. But I never really encountered (to my knowledge) it in my life to really get to know about it. I knew I was a bit different, so where were people like me? Where were people who also didn’t fit into these rigid categories that we were ‘supposed’ to fit into?

    I felt like I was missing a lot of ‘reality’ in my ‘real life’. I found some of it here. Of all places, I find it in a make-believe tale with make-believe characters, and yet – it feels so real, so based on reality. I may not have personally experienced anything like this, and I hope I’m not coming across as claiming something I have no right to, but I still feel like these stories have crawled into my consciousness deep enough to feel like I have experienced it, even if only second-hand.

    I am going to miss these characters so much.

    There is so much I want to say, so much I could say, but the most important thing to do is express my appreciation. Thank you. I wish there were stronger, better words than that, but that’s what it boils down to: Thank you, Tab. You’ve made me a better person.

    • Sandra-Leigh
      Sandra-Leigh

      Nicely written, Shaz. Thanks for commenting!

  26. drv
    drv

    i am going to be the only commenter who ever says this, but:

    i feel for jamie’s mum.

    she had a little kid. when she found out he was getting raped she uprooted their life and moved. she didn’t tell anyone because she was afraid of losing her kid. it may be easy for grown!jamie and us to say she did the wrong thing there, but it is a judgment call, and she did move her child to safety and try to look after him (even if she was wrong about assessing the damage, that’s not easy to do).

    good luck jamie, and i hope someday that (a) yr mom gets a clue and (b) you can forgive her for not necessarily getting it right.

  27. drv
    drv

    oh yeah — and now she’s losing her kid. we can all cry for charlie and jamie’s breakup (if it happens) but on an emotional level it seems likely that jamie’s mum loves him a lot, and we know because he said so that he loves her too. i respect his need to get away, but i also see this as a breakup (of a family, if not a romantic couple) and i think it’s sad.

    • Month
      Month

      If she did indeed uproot her family just to save Jamie, then why did she say “And let them know I”, emphasis on the I please, “I ‘d failed to protect you?” Her real problem was what other people would think about HER. Not Jamie. She didn’t want people around her think she was a “crap mom”. She just wanted everyone to think that everything was ok. I would feel bad about losing everyone in her life, but when she lost her husband she blamed him. When Jamie got raped, she ignored what he child needed and, as you can sure remember, even instilled in him homophobic beliefs. Jamie was able to break from those beliefs because, for some strange reason, he loves people deeply. Maybe because he is starved for affection, and didn’t want to lose all that. Even though he is a Jerk. He has also mellowed out a lot after the fight with Tom, as we have seen in the other stories too.

      Anyway, back to the Bitch. She broke this family a long time ago. But it is far more terrible to admit the failure, than to fail on something.

      • drv
        drv

        because if they knew she failed to protect him, they’d take him away. and they loved each other. that is all.

    • The Keeper
      The Keeper

      drv – I see where you’re coming from here, and I think it’s pretty awesome you are trying to put yourself in someone else’s shoes, particularly the “bad guy’s” and see where they are coming from.

      That said, I don’t think Jaime’s mom REALLY loves Jaime – I think she BELIEVE’S she loves Jaime and that she NEEDS Jaime but not that she actually loves him. Love is mutually beneficial; this is clearly not. Love helps you grow, love truly is patient, selfless, kind, and that whole 1 Corinthians bit in the bible.

      Now, we aren’t any of us perfect people, and our own egos and selfishness get in the way sometimes, but love asks us to put aside ourselves more often than not, and nothing indicates that Jaime’s mom (jean, was it?) has done that. As Month pointed out, it’s clear PART of her motivation for moving was based on maintaining appearances. Granted, we see all this from Jaime’s undoubtedly biased point of view, but I think the evidence is that he is a reliable narrator and we can trust that, if anything, he’s biased in his mom’s favor.

      I will say, her behavior so far seems very much neurotic, and it’s very likely that we can look back into her past and see that she herself was probably starved for affection, disciplined over harshly, and probably suffered under much the same circumstances Jaime has. I don’t think she’s CAPABLE of loving until she has, herself, had therapy. In THAT sense, it’s not entirely her fault that she hasn’t given Jaime what he needed because it simply wasn’t in her emotional and intellectual capacity to do so.

      Nevertheless, we don’t endlessly excuse people because bad things happened to them. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions and your own decisions. Most likely she had a child because her own neuroses NEEDED someone she could control and rely on affection from. Jaime fulfilled a need, and she’s desperately attached to him for that reason. Jaime is no more than a security blanket to her. Needing someone is not the same as loving them.

      • drv
        drv

        don’t get me wrong, i think she’s nutty as a fruitcake. i also think crazy people can feel love, even if they still act crazy.

        (i work in a mental hospital. your interpretive mileage may vary.)

        • headbuttoflove
          headbuttoflove

          I kind of see where you’re coming from. After the fact, she tried to “protect” him from Murphs, etc.

          Still, easy to hate.

    • SolitareLee
      SolitareLee

      Sometimes it’s okay to not have to feel sympathy for someone who /beats, burns, and psychologically tortures their child./

      • drv
        drv

        absolutely; if you don’t have empathy for her, that’s fine too. i had the feeling i’d be the only commenter who ever said this sort of thing, and i’m okay with that. i’m not okay with her abuse of jamie; i just think she has feelings too and they’re not all necessarily evil.

  28. Yelnik McWawa
    Yelnik McWawa

    I swear to god I’m not trolling here, but Jesus Christ.

    The world at large would probably be a lot more tolerant of trans people (the same way it’s becoming for gay people) if y’all didn’t take umbrage when some poor sod, attempting to be outgoing or friendly or what have you, didn’t get grief because he didn’t use pronouns insisted on by trans activists. I, for one, am fine addressing trans people as whatever way they present themselves (dude, lady, guy, miss, sir, ma’am). I am not getting into the cisgender thing. I am not going to tiptoe through minefields of identity politics. I just don’t have the time.

    But Yelnik, you say. This is how I identify. This is what I want to be called.

    And I say, then your social circle is going to be smaller, and more and more rarified. Join the human race. Don’t dismiss people who don’t speak your language, and don’t take the opportunity to “educate” them if they’re being friendly. Make it easy for those of us who don’t run into your team very often to be nice to you.

    • Month
      Month

      As a rule of thumb, she has tits, I call her a she. If I have problem figuring out what she is, I ask. But if I see a dude, two meters tall, badly saved and in a wig, and demands to call him a she, this is were I draw the line. Not because I want to insult, but because he looks ridiculous.

      • Anonymous
        Anonymous

        Well, you’re clearly a dick bag. How does changing the pronouns you use for someone even affect you? This is one simple thing you can do to make someone feel better about themselves and feel accepted, but instead you want to act like they’re not trans just because they don’t appear as you expect them to.

        • Month
          Month

          Soooooo, Let me get this straight. Just because I will not call a guy that wears a ridiculous outfit, and makes only the minimum effort to try and look his “preferred” gender a she, I am a dick bag? You are missing the point here, lad. And you should have the balls to post your name by the way. If said guy wants to be called a transvestite or however the fuck he wants, I do not care, he should try to be like what he wants to be. Not the stereotype, not the social norm, but hell! Women do not have beards. Women do not have chest hair, and do not go around showing them off! If a guy does these things and call himself trans, I call bullshit. He just likes to dress in pretty dresses, and that’s ok.

          Jesus you people are touchy!

          • Sandra-Leigh
            Sandra-Leigh

            I have personally met a genetic woman who had a beard. I have also met intersexed people with beards. And you should look at http://gossiponthis.com/2012/09/27/balpreet-kaur-proud-sikh-woman-with-full-beard-gracefully-responds-internet-critics/

            Judging my gender by whether I have shaved or not on any given day would be a mistake. Most of the facial hair removal methods require growing the hairs to have enough for the instruments to work on.

            Ridiculous outfits can be found in most fashion shows. Worn-out and poorly designed outfits can be found in many department stores — on the customers, that is.

      • Anonymous
        Anonymous

        Well then clearly you’re a prick for ignoring someone’s identity.

        • Month
          Month

          Well then, clearly you are a prick for ignoring the post and deciding that I am a prick for calling someone for his bullshit! Or should we call “trans” all crossdressers, cause, you know, they decided to be called thus?

      • Lasa
        Lasa

        As someone who has met that two-meter tall trans woman in a wig who had just gone on hormones and was coming into my department store looking for advice on a nice outfit to wear to her celebration party, I want to say shame on you. The woman I met was sweet and overly excitable, and didn’t share my taste in fashion at all, but was so happy to be called by her trans name and to be picking out dresses with all the other girls. And we went against store policy to let her change in the women’s fitting rooms, because that’s what she was. A woman.

        I think a lot of people look ridiculous. People who wear skirts too high, pants too low, who bedazzle everything they own or wear clothing that could double as a burlap sack. That doesn’t give me the right to misidentify or insult them. It doesn’t hurt me if they walk around in a fashion that I would never be caught dead in.

        Besides which, one of my friends is a six-foot tall ciswoman who is constantly mistaken for a man, and I am a ciswoman who shaves her face almost daily. Women come in all shapes and sizes, and just because you THINK you can tell doesn’t mean you’re right.

    • Albert Mare
      Albert Mare

      As a guy who is trans I actually see where you’re coming from, and I’m cringing because I think the people you ran afoul are the crazy “politically trans****” people. The ones who are always girls age 15-20 who ignore the basic definition of trans but want to feel special by “identifying” as femme demiguy sparkleboiz*. Believe me, you’re not the only one who can’t stand them, and those of us who are actually trans are well aware that they’re hurting the cause, precisely because they’re making people like you see people like us as idiots who have nothing better to do than whine about gender-neutral pronouns like xir.

      • Month
        Month

        I don’t see trans people as idiots. I see people that try to pass up as trans and clearly are not as idiots. One of them got so “insulted” once, when I asked if he was a she or a he, that tried to put out his cigarette on my eye.

      • A Non-binary Person
        A Non-binary Person

        Yeah, non-binary “idiots” who have no restroom or locker room to ever hope to use, who feel horribly dysphoric with minimal hope of appropriate surgeries or people using pronouns that don’t rub on our skin like a cheese grater (how do YOU feel when people misgender YOU?), who could never look like the gender we are because there is no way to be read as our gender, who are told no one like us exists past the age of 20… No, we have “nothing better to do than whine” about pronouns.

        We certainly don’t need to be out there convincing binary trans people, especially binary trans men, that we are worth including. Why, that would be like drag queens and trans women fighting to be included by the gay movement around Stonewall and being told they made respectable folks “look bad.” Oh, wait…

    • Lena
      Lena

      Oh yes, damn those minorities for not acting nice enough to get their rights. It’s not as that’s like a basic human thing, you know?

    • Lena
      Lena

      But they’re being nice to you! Clearly that means it’s okay for them to invalidate your identity. If you’re not okay with someone saying “could you not do that, that’s sorta hurtful.” or “I’d prefer if you’d address like that.” or “That stereotype is not true.” than you are pretty much an ass.

    • SolitareLee
      SolitareLee

      Damn, was everyone just waiting for an excuse to go really, really transphobic with no warning given? If you think that people not being pretty enough for you is a good reason to be a purposeful, deliberate asshole to them, then, not sorry, you’re just a bad person. That would be like saying if a woman doesn’t put forth the EFFORT to look PRETTY for you, you’re perfectly justified in harassing her and calling her names, or just being completely dismissive of anything she says. Because she didn’t wear make up that day.

      • Month
        Month

        You think it’s about being pretty? It’s about people stating one thing, and not doing anything about it. It’s like saying that you will fix the lights and not only not do it, but accuse others when they do so.
        Pretty is not what I am talking about! I have seen my fair share of butt ugly trans that tried to look like women and failed! And I still call them females. I am talking about people that pretend to be trans, cause it is more shameful to admit that they are cross dressers! I am certainly not transphobic. If I was, would I be enjoying this comic this much?

        • SolitareLee
          SolitareLee

          It has NEVER been and will NEVER be more shameful to be a crossdresser than someone who is trans. e_e The only benefit I can see is that trans people can eventually pass and pretend the whole thing never happened. But a crossdresser can control who does and doesn’t see them dressed up like that… and if they need to be themselves so badly that being bullied doesn’t matter, than I don’t really see a difference between them and trans. If a “guy” in your personal opinion, needs to wear a dress so badly “he” doesn’t care if you and everyone else on the planet is an asshole to them… that person deserves the same respect you give a fucking trans person. Are trans people somehow better than crossdressers now? Has it ever occurred to you this person you run into might just be bigendered, or genderqueer, or maybe they enjoy getting into character, or maybe they have a job that requires them to look one gender but wish they could present the other? For example, when I go out dressed male now, I do NOT pass, and if I was doing it the other way, I’d look like the kind of “fake trans crossdresser” you’re insulting. Why? Because I HAVE to look bio female for my job, but I still want to go out and be male sometimes.

          You’re assuming a lot about people you don’t know, and if you know one person who fits the exact things you’re assuming, you’re projecting one person onto an awful lot of people.

          • Month
            Month

            So, according to you, the fact that a straight guy just loves to wear skirts and the such, putting him in the cross dresser category of people, just because he loves wearing female clothes, he can be called a trans? I think not.

            You have to dress up in a way you do not like, because the social norm demands it. It doesn’t matter if you feel the manliest man inside, society expects you to dress up like a pretty princess. And that is wrong. What I have been trying to say, and quite possibly failed, is that people that do not make an effort to apply what they say they are… they probably aren’t. You are a man trapped in a female body. You try to present your self as manly as you can. Even if you fail, you try. Would anyone ever take you seriously if you told them that you are a man, while wearing a pink princess dress with a nice tiara? I think not.

            Same thing applies here. A trans that is a female in a mans body would try to be as much what society feels a female is. So, yeah, when I see a trans with a beard like ZZ-Top, I coin them cross dressers and that is that. Or can you tell me a job where having a bushy beard is a must? No seriously. If you know tell me so that I can apply.

            Now bi-gendered… I have never really met someone bi-gendered, meaning, if I get it right, someone that feels like both. It seems to me that it is a term coined to men and women that don’t give a flying fuck what their gender is, and just… are. And since I am ignorant of the subject, I will have to research it before replying.

            Finally, though I am not involved that much with the trans community, I am far from ignorant. Please don’t call me that.

    • Ditto
      Ditto

      I agree with Month and Yelnik here (and yes, I’m trans). People present to show how they want to be treated – that’s how you communicate your gender in the first place. Yeah, looking attractive and perfectly passable are a whole ‘nother ballgame, but it’s fairly easy to glance at someone and tell what they’re trying to be, weather they were born that way or not. And then you call them that. It’s good manners, and it makes the world work smoothly. And that’s a good thing.

  29. Pasko
    Pasko

    Jamie looks much more masculine than usual. :P

  30. Alex
    Alex

    The last panel of page 2 where Jamie is reflecting back on his childhood shows Jamie in a car, so he’s obviously leaving for SOMEwhere that’s far enough to warrant the use of a car. And — assumng that Tab was drawing the standard British right hand drive car — also he’s in the passenger seat of the car, which means that he has to be with someONE.

    From what he says there I think we can rule out the possibility of suicide as he talks about an on going process “getting there”, if he was really considering leaving Charlie through suicide then he would probably say something more like “I suppose I never got there”. His planning for staying with Colin in the recent pages suggests that he’s not thinking of suicide either.

    I can see him going off to live with Colin for a while and assuming that a long distance relationship with Charlie isn’t going to work, if they both live in opposite directions from the cafe, and Charlie lived yet further away from Jamie’s old house then there could reasonably be an hours drive between them, and he might not necessarily continue going to the college either. Unlikely explanation, but possible.

    I’m wondering whether he’s going to go off and do some activist work to make up for the wrongs that he’s done in to gay people his past — and also why he’s taken Charlie’s leaflet — as his way of repentance. Or whether he’s going to do something to raise the issue of rape and peadophilia because he seems to feel pretty strongly about making sure that other kids don’t get hurt.

    I feel sorry for Jamie’s mother in one respect, she did what she thought was right, but she did it all wrong. And obviously she feels a lot more emotion than what the reader sees from the way she handled Jamie’s outburst. But also she really should have paid more attention to how the rape might have affected Jamie. Sadly not many people do.

  31. talenkarr
    talenkarr

    two things first charlie looks like charlie. the girl who’s fashion i would copy If I was 10 years younger. A thirty seven years old wearing her clothes would just look silly.
    Second His mother reminds me so much of my mom it’s scary. It’s all about her. *bitch slap*……there I feel better. Although I am not trans that kind of person is so bed for people who have been threw any tramua.

  32. pizza
    pizza

    Gaaaaaawwwwwwdddd Charlie’s outfit!!!! I WANTS IT!!!!

    And noooooo please don’t end it! I’ve stopped reading Teahouse and Starfighter comic because KhaosKomix was way more entertaining and had more story than mindless sex in it! :O

  33. JPHaukka

    Stop guessing. This is too awesome to know where’s going to.

  34. Miter
    Miter

    I don’t understand. Jamie said “she let me get raped”, but his mom said more or less “we found out, so we moved (to get away from him)”. That’s not letting their son be raped. She only moved for a dick reason, but she didn’t cover for Jamie’s abuser or keep the situation going on. Why does Jamie think she let the abuser do anything?

    • Alex
      Alex

      He’s really hurt so he’s probably not thinking rationally, and also we don’t know at what point Jean found out, Jamie’s probably assumed that she knew WHILE it was going on, and only moved when she felt it had gone too far/he was getting old enough to realise it was wrong. She might found out and moved STRAIGHT AWAY but we don’t know that, and nor does Jamie.

      • Month
        Month

        Well, until they moved she never told him not to go see him….

    • Anonymous
      Anonymous

      I think he means that he got raped, and she acted like it didn’t happen. She ‘let’ him get raped without taking action.

  35. Neko
    Neko

    Jamie’s face in the 4th panel, though. Guys, his face. It’s killing me, oh my gosh…

  36. Jess
    Jess

    Psh Tab don’t worry too much about inconsistent art. I draw a picture and show someone and most of the time they then say “… Is that a chick?” and i have to be all “-.- nooo its a long-haired guy.”

    The fact that it ONLY happens with your trans characters though… it wouldn’t be as big a deal if Mark and Amber were also getting the “Mark looks kinda girly in this panel” or “Amber looks like she’s a dude!” then it would be understandable…

    *end rambling*

  37. hawaii05
    hawaii05

    i wont lie, I kinda wonder if tab is glad to be done cause I have to say I am appalled at how the comments have gone. When we were starting with Mark and Steve we all seemed like a nice big happy family and now every other comment is people being intolerant and inconsiderate of others thought s and opinions. lot has changed

    • SolitareLee
      SolitareLee

      For some reason when you get into trans issues, a lot more hate surges up than with gay issues. I have no idea why. x_x

      • headbuttoflove
        headbuttoflove

        Further out on the edge of comfort/acceptance? While I remember seeing news stories about “(wo)men trapped in (wo)man’s body” in the early 90s, I imagine the average person is more used to/educated in gay issues than trans ones, whether they are accepting or not.

        The late 90s/early 00s were a big leap forward in acceptance of gay stuff with Ellen and Queer Eye, but there weren’t really equivalent strides for trans people.

        Even a show like Glee does several gay/bi/self-hating characters before introducing a trans(?) character.

        I don’t know for sure, but trans people may even be less common statistically than gay people.

  38. FireflyAlive
    FireflyAlive

    I literally looked at the last panel, realised they were wearing the same clothes as the first one saying he’s gonna leave her and started shouting ‘NOO! NO NO NO NO NOO!’ at the screen. Tab, how and why do you do this to us? D:

  39. Trivium
    Trivium

    For those in the know: I’m here to say that everything went alright. Not perfect, but alright. I’ll give details next Monday if I catch the stream.

    I also see we’re down to the last few pages. I hope Tab will let us know where we can find his next work when it’s finished (if he does do something next).

  40. Anonymous
    Anonymous

    Panel 5: It’s exactly the scene from the first page.

    • Anonymous
      Anonymous

      Oh – no, he’s wearing his jacket in panel 5. My bad.

  41. Bri
    Bri

    Oh, I see it. Jamie’s going to go confront his rapist. Plus he needs to leave this toxic environment in such close proximity to his mother. Jamie needs to leave. I love this couple. I want my two favorite characters to get together. But he needs to leave. Maybe Charlie will follow? Oh please let Charlie follow..

  42. Ditto
    Ditto

    “I do not draw my trans characters any differently depending on what they’re doing, any changes you see are just you. This is something I only get with my trans characters and it is NOT okay.”
    …I actually thought you were doing it on purpose, the same way the dialogue shifts slightly with each person to show what impressions they took away from the conversation. It was honestly one of the best parts, and I’ve recommended this comic to people based on that alone. I’m actually pretty sad to hear it’s all been an accident all this time.

    If it makes you feel any better, your cis-characters undergo that too, but I’d just assumed that was due to trying new art styles for them.

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